Falokun: Baba, you're one of the pioneers of Ifa and Orisa worship here in America. You have been a tremendous influence on me and have always been willing to let me know when you disagreed with me on certain topics. I have always appreciated that. What is it you want to tell people who are new to the traditions of Ifa and Orisa.

Medahochi: Well, first of all, of course, when a new person is approaching an African faith system, they should realize that an African faith system is not a monolith. It's not fixed-one church, one temple, or on system; its multiple systems. African faith is fragmented. It was fragmented hundreds of years ago. So, there is more than one way to approach the African reality. There are many ways to approach it and each one is valid. What we bring to it what we get out of it.

I tell an initiate when you go into a room to get initiated, you bring out what you carried in. They cannot put anything in you that you do not have. There are, potentially, certain spiritiual essences within you that will be aroused, that will be evoked. So, I think it is for a person to recognize there are many ways but no one way is going to get you there. As I told Yemi, the truth is a pathless land. There is only so far spirit can take you. Whatever spirit you are worshipping cannot take you all the way. In fact, it is the Ori (human consciousness) that will be able to take a person all the way to the source. So, no matter what system you get in, you are going to have to, one day, make it by yourself. The work you brought with you from your spiritual source is approached alone. For example, I think what is lacking in the faith systems that we practice is that we don't teach the concept of the person. I think the greatest contribution that Africans have made in their theology is the way we see the person. To say there is one God is not a revelation because most folks believe that. To say there are spiritual beings, call them Orisa, Voudoun, Angels, or Gi, whatever you name them, isn't unique because everybody has that kind of concept. So, what is the uniqueness about the African teaching? It would be the way we see the person.

The person has a prenatal existence before we came to the world of life. We existed. You had a destiny and in Yoruba, we call that Ori. This is your destiny, but you have many people inside. You are more than one person. The person is the social ego which was put in you in your particular community. After you were born, the mother and father began to socialize you. You community socialized you. The school socialized you. That means then, you're living life up to that socializing process but it's not you at all. You came here with a destiny. Ifa teaches that the human being, before he or she incarnates in this life, has to receive a divination. This is the same divination that is done when you receive your Ori. If you get Ogbe Ogunda, they say that's what you got in Heaven. It contains all the things. For example, if you buy a machine, they give you a manual. You are told when to oil it, what kind of fuel to put in it, that kind of stuff. The human being has an operating manual that is the Odu (verse of divination). It's supposed to tell you how this machine operates. What you are supposed to put in it, what your eewo (taboo) is, that is your Odu.

Now, the human being, on coming to this world, is born with angels from heaven. These beings ask for a certain destiny, are given permission, and are born with you. No matter what you do to them, you can't change them. You can't make them like you. At the same time, there are people who are around you to help you. No matter, how low you sink, they will stick with you. That is a friend. You have both of these kinds of people. Most of you can tell me about somebody who has helped you out of the clear blue sky. For example, Baba Sergiman and I were stranded on a beach in January. The beach was closed. We were a mile up the road looking for seashells. The car got stuck on the beach. A mile away, we saw a car stop. This car was driven down to the beach. There were three people, two white men and a woman. They looked out and asked if we were stuck. Now, how could they look a mile away and tell we were stuck? They tried to pull us out with a rope and the rope broke. They went back [I don't know where they went], found a chain, and pulled us out of the sand. They wouldn't take a dime for their help. Now how and why did these people come to help us? At the same time, there are people who will come by, put you in the sand, and not let you get out. So, these are the kind of things that happen.

We come to this world with a destiny. You can be hindered but it is up to you to accomplish what you came here to do. It's not right to let something take you off your path. Now, I think a person should find out what he or she cam to do and try to do that. Don't let me put you on a wild goose chase.

Another thing is that if Oshun wants you, she should let you know that, not let a diviner tell you that. What's my Orisa? That means you don't know. That means no Orisa has indicated anything to you, not in dream, not even in a daydream. Now, you want a diviner to ask the question. Nine [times] out of ten, if you ask Sango, he will say yes. Sango will accept anybody, but that don't tell you your destiny. The Orisa that came to you in Heaven will tell you your destiny. Many times somebody will agree to go with you, but that does not mean who it was supposed to have been. Oshun wanted to with you. Yeah, I'll accept this child. But who was the one who was supposed to go with you or was manifested through you. It may be the Christian Devil who came to carry you back. I don't know.

That is why we need to know who we are, where we are, and what we ought to do.

Yemi: Are you saying a person should not get a divination to find out who their Orisa is?

Medahochi: I am not opposed to that. I said a lot of things. One of the things I said was that if you get your Odu from your head then that will tell what Orisa is in there. They are the ones that are compelled to be with you because of what the Odu was, not that you selected them. The fact is, say you got the Odu Ogbe Meji. It has the essence of certain Orisa who are supposed to be in there. So, you would know which one based on what Odu you have. I don't mean to say a diviner can't tell you because they can tell you. Ideally, it would be better for you to find out through your Odu and see the Orisa themselves that are manifested through you. That's full proof. I know a woman who every time she would go to a ceremony would receive what she thought was Oshun. When she was initiated, it was for Obatala. So, a lot of times we think because a person dances a certain way, they have Oshun. But, it might be better said that the power is modified by the person. If a one legged man got possessed by the God of Dance, he would hop around on one leg. I wonder why. That's the way he was made. That's the only way he can danceon one leg. But, if you have the same spirit in you, you're going to dance a different way. You're going to move, get down. But, if a one legged man is limited to that, then that's all he can do.

So, I think, as in Brazil, a better way is to let the spirit talk and tell you who it is. Now, when you come to Brazil and you dance with the spirit, even if you have been initiated to Oshun, you have to dance until the spirit talks. No one is supposed to call its name. They have seven songs to sing. Then, they can tell who it is. If it doesn't tell you, you can't take them back in the room. You have to do it again because he hasn't gotten it done. Nobody did anything. But we don't require that.

Falokun: I like to do the divination; then wait for confirmation to see some manifestation of the Orisa at ceremony.

Medahochi: Some people do quite well without ever going into possession, but I think it would be good if they did. I've never had a possession, not to know it. But I have had inspiration. Every time I divine, I am inspired but not possessed. You know what I mean? I believe the next generation will have something to stand on. We had to read and misread. The one who wrote it didn't know hat he was talking about either. We would go different places and get information. There wasn't much. Now, the second and third generations are going to be out there. They have things to study. Information we never had.

Falokun: We spent all our time trying to figure out what we were supposed to be doing as awo.

Medahochi: That's right. The young people now have resources. I remember when there were only two books on Ifa.

Falokun: And you wrote one them.

Medahochi: (laughs) Now, there are books galore. But the more information you have, the more you think you know. You can get a big head.

Falokun: Baba, as always, you have been an inspiration. I want to thank you for your time and your wisdom, a dupe pupo.